spinks-judah...many questions....not enough answers..

[sphincter]

piccirillo,spinks,and pineda had their own little round robin of mediocrity going for awhile there....and i saw the first picc./spinks bout and spinks/ pineda.....spinks won both picc. bouts.....he was actually fading badly vs pineda and imo,probably going to lose if the fight isn`t stopped in the 7th...

the mayorga bout seems to have propelled spinks to a higher level than his resume would actually warrant......i have always felt that mayorga was totally overrated and was getting exposed sooner rather than later...

judah....was a pfp guy prior to the tzsyu punk-out...the guy has super speed and talent....he has the kind of speed that neutralizes everything....but,he can be lazy.....and makes excuses.....and the extra weight throws another question mark into the equation...

i doubt that spinks` power will be a factor...what there is of it...the reach and the willingness to use that jab,on the other hand,are what give spinks his shot here...and he has,by far,the better whiskers... and the much better defense...although the whisker thing has a little to do with zab`s power and his willingness to take some chances with it...sometimes when you commit,you get caught...

judah won`t be able to stand outside and bide his time here....and spinks,although not judah fast,is fast and slick enough,and tall enough,and solid enough defensively(which is actually his best asset)to cause judah serious problems....

another few items...you basically have 2 guys that would rather counter than lead...neither guy is what i`d call a stalker....the one time judah was really aggressive,he got whacked by tszyu...

judah will have to be the stalker...he won`t outjab the taller longer guy...and he can`t fight lazy...he`ll get lulled into a boxing match with a height and reach disadvantage...and by having to be the aggressor,judah goes out of his natural style and plays into spinks` strength...

how will the extra weight affect judah?....and his speed?....two lefties?...does that favor anyone?....can judah change his style?....not a good thing at this point in his career?...

a major question i have is,"is spinks in the same league as judah talent wise?".....lets face it...judah is one of those unusual talents....his speed is on another level..and he has real power...at least at jr welter.....on balance,he`s fought better competition than spinks...but at a lighter weight...

alot of questions will be answered here....how much better will being champion make spinks?....

i think judah is the much better fighter...pfp....but,given the height,reach....the fact that spinks will be fighting in his usual style and zab will have to adjust....natural weight and defensive advantages,this looks like a tough call for me...

zab...better talent...speed...even at a higher weight,better power(speed is power)...has never lost to anything other than a hall of famer...natural super ability...

but,lousy chin..can be lazy....and is a head case...could get frustrated...

cory....taller....tremendous reach advantage...much better defensively...better chin...is the incumbent champ...will be fighting at his natural weight...in his natural style....doesn`t usually fluster..

but,has never fought anyone with this kind of pure speed and quickness...never fought anyone at this talent level....

i`ve posed more questions than i answered...

i can see someone taking the odds with spinks...there`s enough there to take the shot...particularly as the odds go up....

i`ll wait until the weigh in to try and form a solid opinion....

please weigh in,guys....i`m sitting on the fence...at least until the weigh in...
__________________

 

[Royler]

Not anywhere NEAR into boxing as I am MMA, but I've been told Judah is the play.

 

[JOddessa]

If your sittin on the fence waiting, then it seems to be a no brainer for me. The dog or pass. Just my thinking although all the early money is on Judah. I will be happy to need spinks. I am not a fan of Spinks by any means, but Judah is no world beater.

 

[Big-KO]

I like Judah in this one.

 

[franks.]

I was at the Tszyu-Judah bout back when. Zab had
Kosta hurt in the first round. He then went native (to wit, Brownsville, Brooklyn), shifted
into "bad a**" mode and got reckless and exposed himself to Tszyu. His lousy attitude
and arrogance cost him dearly. Zab does possess
blinding speed for sure. I'm going with poise,
height and reach advantage=Spinks.

 

[valdosta]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by J/Oddessa:
If your sittin on the fence waiting, then it seems to be a no brainer for me. The dog or pass. Just my thinking although all the early money is on Judah. I will be happy to need spinks. I am not a fan of Spinks by any means, but Judah is no world beater.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree for sure. There have certainly been better -170 fav this year than Judah. In my mind this fight could pretty much go either way.

 

[sphincter]

i`m surprised to hear guys say that judah`s nothing special...he`s got some serious flaws,but,he`s one of only a handful of fighters in the game that has untouchable speed and reflexes...

headcase?....sure...but for pure speed and athletic ability,after roy jones(to me,mayweather jr has lost some of his speed as he`s moved up in weight),you`d be hard pressed to come up with somebody with more natural physical gifts...if he had roy jones or toney`s boxing i.q.,the guy would be an absolute monster...

before he got tagged with what some call a lucky shot,by a sure hall of famer,he was a top pfp guy....now,he`s "nothing special"?

i think spinks has some advantages in this fight other than height and reach......talent isn`t one of them...

but,mental toughness just might be...

judah was ,in all honesty,making tszyu look bad in the first round of their fight...then tszyu dropped the equalizer on him.....i don`t think spinks has that equalizer...

i`ve never seen judah outboxed....i saw spinks fade badly vs pineda...he was going to lose that fight...i know,i watched it and had spinks....i got a gift...and spinks didn`t exactly dominate piccirillo.....i shudder to think what judah does to a guy like piccirillo....

now,he goes from fighting one of the absolute worst technical boxers i`ve ever seen in mayorga,a perfect style match-up for cory,to fighting a 180 degree difference in style...

i see why some think spinks is a very live dog.......but,we`re basically saying that spinks,off an upset of mayorga(who i always thought was way,way overrated)and with few other quality wins,will basically outbox judah....

if judah loses here,he`s basically relegated to 2nd tier status....

the rub is,if judah takes a vacation like he did vs corley,he could get beat...and what really worries me is that if things start going badly for judah,he will lose his composure.....and probably start claiming he reinjured his hand or something....

cory does work harder in the ring....and is the busier guy...

i wish i could look into judah`s head...

[This message was edited by sphincter on April 08, 2004 at 08:08 PM.]

 

[franks.]

Physical toughness; mental toughness. I am of a mind that BOTH are the ticket to winning. I read
an interview with Zab and basically he scoffs
when speaking of this fight and says " I mean we
are fighting Cory Spinks" as if this constituted
a joke. I remember an old saying growing up in
Brooklyn, NY in the same neighborhoods where
Zab hails; namely "you can take the people out
of the neighborhood but you can't take the neighborhood out of the people. If he gets a)
cocky; and b) moves straight back, he will make
this a long nite for himself. Heck, Ive been
wrong many times so we'll wait for Saturday!

 

[almly]

I see the over 10.5 rounds is -265 at Olympic which is very high. I dont have a feeling about this fight either way. I do think that it is going the distance though. My money is currently tied up right now but if it wasnt I would play on the over.

 

[tonymontana+]

I am on the over and Spinks via dec at +240.

 

[sphincter]

sounds like a plan....the "spinks by decision" caught my interest also...

 

[Mr NJ Sports]

Tempted to take Spinks but it seems as if both fighters do the same things and I think Judah does them faster. I do not think I want to lay -170 on a boxer I really do not want to root for so I will probably pass.

 

[JOddessa]

'sounds like a plan....the "spinks by decision" caught my interest also...'

I dont like rd props, but how is a guy movin up in weight almost a 2-1 fav over the champ who just beat the man who beat the man who beat the man 2x Forrest who beat the other man mosely 2x who beat teh other man 2x DLH. Styles make fights. Its a no brainer value wise.

As far as Brewster, I cant figure this line movement out. Lamon who? Fred Sanfords son Lamont has more recent press than this clown. I sure hope he isn't worth a shit, bc I am loaded w/ dog money.

 

[hardcorecap]

Zab didnt get lazy vs corley, he hurt his hand, and coasted because he was dominating him. Spinks had a greaet match up vs Mayorga, and it was perfect for his style, which was jab and run, and as much as i hate it, it is part of boxing and he won the fight, but not by alot. I really think Zab is the play here, and i also like JUdah by KO,TKO, DQ +340 at Bodog. Spinks will have to trade if he wants to win, and i feel he may get stopped.

 

[sphincter]

i honestly agree with hardcore....i think judah`s much the better guy...but he has a head problem....and he`s lazy....doesn`t like to work..

all this mayorga stuff really baffles me ....the guy is nothing special...and he`s moving to jr middle?.....it will be much tougher,for a guy that`s practically skill-less to overpower bigger guys...mayorga`s gonna take some more losses at the higher weight..winky,oscar,ouma,verno phillips....even tokunbo olajide....mayorga`s got a problem..

if judah has his head on straight,and comes to work....he wins...if he stands outside and plays around,spinks will outjab him.....and out work him...

i see the odds rising...i see judah as just being more talented....but he`s not mentally tough...

i just don`t know..i`m not sold on spinks as being something special..tough one for me...

what i did was grab miguel callist at +115 at 5 dimes....he can surely lose....but,i like him as the dog....these odds have turned around...

just thought it was a good line...

did anybody touch wlad/brewster under 6.5?



g.l...

 

[JOddessa]

From my understanding the +115 was a mistake at 5dimes. I spoke w/ them and they flipped the fav but left it up so long he is honoring bets. But they lean towards Sim as winning. He liked Sim to win and his opinion is pretty good. I like Callist though myself.

 

[sphincter]

thanks for the info,o.......i initially took zab at-160....but,i got cold feet and hedged with spinks by decision at +240....if spinks wins,i win a six pack....if judah wins,i basically break even...

what can i say?....i`m running from this one like a french surrender monkey..

i`ve flip-flopped enough on this one...judah`s better...spinks is tougher and harder working...

i`m confused...

 

[sphincter]

sim won a decision...i figured if he won he`d stop callist....good value...bad play...

.......

p.s....i got bad info...i just found out he did stop callist....wrong on both counts....

i`m on a roll today...

 

[sphincter]

callist takes the pipe....i hit the larger end of the hedge with spinks by decision..and hit the under 6.5...although i didn`t expect it to go the way it did...



..judah fights lazy....particularly early....goes long stretches without punching....trying to land the big left hand....and doing little to set it up....

finally gets serious late in the fight but still doesn`t fight with real urgency until the last round....

gets the "real" knockdown(spinks knockdown was cheap....judah off balance...was more of a push than a real solid knockdown) ...but it comes to late...

i had spinks winning basically because he outworked judah...he faded,but he still did enough,imo...

judah has a real "mental" problem....maybe he`s used to outclassing guys without working to hard....whatever,he lacks whatever it is that great fighters have inside....glad that spinks didn`t get screwed...

congrats to whomever the guys were that drove klit from -925 to around -450 in some places....

i know some of the books took it up the giggy....feel bad for joey....

it`s a toss-up....who has better stamina?....butterbean or wlad klitschko?...


just thankful that the judah/spinks fight didn`t end in a draw....i understand that if it were a draw,they would have had to have a "rap-off"....

 

[almly]

I had not dough on the fight but scored it anyway. I had it 5-5 thru 10 and a draw after all was said and done. I can grasp 114-112 but the bitch that scored it 116-111 is a piece of sh!t. As I said, 114-112 Spinks, no big argument. But seriously, that was one damn close fight.